Scots youths ‘have worst dress sense in Europe’
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| STYLE STAKES: David MacMaster, 21, from Gourock and girlfriend Lattitia Taylor, 24, from Glasgow said Scots youngsters often need time to develop their own style. Picture: Martin Shields |
Douglas Fraser: "The professor is a splended eccentric"
It was an opinion that dared not speak its name - until now. The worlds of fashion and politics have collided after an MSP branded Scottish youngsters the worst-dressed in Europe.
Last night fashion experts defended the country's youth after Christopher Harvie, a 63-year-old politician and history professor, accused them of wearing "what must be the ugliest clothes" in the "entire continent".
And the person the SNP MSP holds most responsible for the state of the young nation is billionaire philanthropist Sir Tom Hunter, founder of Sports Division.
The politician, who lectured in Germany for 27 years, launched the scathing attack during a Scottish Parliament debate on ways of increasing tourism.
He was particularly disturbed by teenagers who put their "big muddy trainers" on the seats of buses.
The Mid-Scotland and Fife MSP added: "It must also be said that the most immense fortune that has been made in Scotland in the past few years - that of Tom Hunter - has arisen from selling people what must be the ugliest clothes worn by anyone on the entire continent.
"Bavarian kids rarely wear anything other than knickerbockers or something like that, but here that is replaced by universal sports goods, barely concealing the fact that Scotland is perhaps the least healthy nation in Western Europe."
But Jimmy Stephen-Cran, head of textiles and fashion at Glasgow School of Art, insisted many young Scots are so fashion conscious they put style ahead of practicality.
"The fashion sense in Scotland depends on where you are looking," he said. "I'm in the slightly fortunate position, in that I'm surrounded by design students who dress fantastically well. As a whole, though, Glaswegian youngsters dress for fashion - despite the weather. Torrential rain could be pouring down and they'd still be out and about in their peep-toe sandals. There are many well-dressed young people around."
Kelly Cooper Barr, fashion editor with The Herald, agreed - and scorned the comments as "typically ill-informed".
"This is just a case of another politician talking about something he knows nothing about," she said. "Scots youngsters are better dressed than others in Europe. Outside London, Glasgow is the city most in fashion."
Rather than being a fashion faux pas, Ms Cooper Barr believed Scots style is currently going through a renaissance - thanks to the inspirations of designers such as Christopher Kane and Jonathan Saunders, who count songstress Kylie Minogue and actress Thandie Newton among their many fans.
According to Belinda Dickson, the cashmere designer, and founder of Edinburgh-based Belinda Robertson Ltd, young Scots are among the most innovative when it comes to stepping out in style.
"I'm always impressed at how adept my younger clients are at mixing and matching. They see a cashmere sweater from our range as an investment, but may team it with cheap fashion accessories from the high street and look a million dollars," she said.
Meanwhile, a spokesman for Sir Tom Hunter who sold his Sports Division in 1998 for £29m said of Prof Harvie's comments, made during a Holyrood debate last week: "Had Tom taken Mr Harvie's sage advice, he would still be selling things out of the back of a van."
A SNP party spokeswoman insisted Mr Harvie's comments were made "in an individual capacity".
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Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:10am Wed 27 Feb 08
[bold]ha ha ha ha[/bold]
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:13am Wed 27 Feb 08
We dress practical expecting bad weather: sun, rain, sleet, snow, and chill winds - all on the same day.
We dress practical expecting bad weather: sun, rain, sleet, snow, and chill winds - all on the same day.
Posted by: Archie, Argyll on 12:25am Wed 27 Feb 08
Who is to say what is a proper dress sense?
Some people would say wearing a tie is absurd?
Would the professor agree?
Who is to say what is a proper dress sense?
Some people would say wearing a tie is absurd?
Would the professor agree?
Posted by: Archie, Argyll on 12:30am Wed 27 Feb 08
How about jodhpurs and winkle pickers?
How about jodhpurs and winkle pickers?
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:31am Wed 27 Feb 08
A 63 year old moaning about what kids wear? Get them all in tweed suits and stiff walking brogues.... lol
A 63 year old moaning about what kids wear? Get them all in tweed suits and stiff walking brogues.... lol
Posted by: Brian Hill, Edinburgh on 1:06am Wed 27 Feb 08
This is not the most intelligent of announcements to make, especially if it's true.
Not intelligent because you only highlight negative problems if you have positive solutions to follow them up with.
I think Professor Harvie may be showing his age. He doesn't want too many of these Victor Meldrew moments to spoil the good work he does in Holyrood.
Constructive criticism from now on please Prof.
This is not the most intelligent of announcements to make, especially if it's true.
Not intelligent because you only highlight negative problems if you have positive solutions to follow them up with.
I think Professor Harvie may be showing his age. He doesn't want too many of these Victor Meldrew moments to spoil the good work he does in Holyrood.
Constructive criticism from now on please Prof.
Posted by: Ishbel Birdtree, up the lum, george sq on 1:11am Wed 27 Feb 08
Stick to the politics, Prof Harvie and we promise to dress smartly on Independence Day.
Wullie, 99% of the time you talk complete and utter p1sh.
Stick to the politics, Prof Harvie and we promise to dress smartly on Independence Day.
Wullie, 99% of the time you talk complete and utter p1sh.
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 1:18am Wed 27 Feb 08
T think its the international dress. Not just Scotland's.
T think its the international dress. Not just Scotland's.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:56am Wed 27 Feb 08
I think he sees those wearing huge baggy trousers, crotch at knee level, ankle hem trailing in tatters on the tarmac, dirty sneakers with the togue hanging out and no shoelaces, Tee shirt over a sweater covered by a hoody, and a baseball cap back to front. No wonder he's confused. But I bet he wore thirty inch bell bottoms and lapels as wide as a kite when he was a student.
Yo!
I think he sees those wearing huge baggy trousers, crotch at knee level, ankle hem trailing in tatters on the tarmac, dirty sneakers with the togue hanging out and no shoelaces, Tee shirt over a sweater covered by a hoody, and a baseball cap back to front. No wonder he's confused. But I bet he wore thirty inch bell bottoms and lapels as wide as a kite when he was a student.
Yo!
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 2:01am Wed 27 Feb 08
When politicians have so deluded the public into thinking we need a fashion police I'm gone simple as that.
When politicians have so deluded the public into thinking we need a fashion police I'm gone simple as that.
Posted by: DAH, Conwy on 2:45am Wed 27 Feb 08
[quote]He was particularly disturbed by teenagers who put their "big muddy trainers" on the seats of buses.[/quote]
What has this got to do with fashion?
Isn't it just as anti social to put one's fine hand-stitched Italian brogues on a bus seat?
He was particularly disturbed by teenagers who put their "big muddy trainers" on the seats of buses.
What has this got to do with fashion?
Isn't it just as anti social to put one's fine hand-stitched Italian brogues on a bus seat?
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:09am Wed 27 Feb 08
Wullie.
Q. Whit dae ye call a wumman frae Glesca that wears a white shell suit?
A. The bride.
Wullie.
Q. Whit dae ye call a wumman frae Glesca that wears a white shell suit?
A. The bride.
Posted by: Richard Davis, Vienna, Austria on 6:27am Wed 27 Feb 08
"Bavarian kids rarely wear anything other than knickerbockers or something like that, but here that is replaced by universal sports goods, barely concealing the fact that Scotland is perhaps the least healthy nation in Western Europe."
What a load of rubbish the kids of Bavaria dress like the rest of the kids in Europe. OK there is not the amount of 'the sling back' jeans...with the erses hanging out, they have in the UK. I can assure you that they are not wearing lederhosen.
"Bavarian kids rarely wear anything other than knickerbockers or something like that, but here that is replaced by universal sports goods, barely concealing the fact that Scotland is perhaps the least healthy nation in Western Europe."
What a load of rubbish the kids of Bavaria dress like the rest of the kids in Europe. OK there is not the amount of 'the sling back' jeans...with the erses hanging out, they have in the UK. I can assure you that they are not wearing lederhosen.
Posted by: brian, glasgow on 8:08am Wed 27 Feb 08
It is interesting that when someone makes an informed contribution to the state of our national society, and as he is SNP I imagine he wants to help this society to improve, that as usual our response is to 'shoot the messenger' ,and stick our head in the sand, instead of taking stock of the where we are now. Everyone rushes out to defend to supposed slur on us, but maybe we should see ourselves as others see us instead of rubishing criticisms which are intended to help us!
One thing I have noticed all over Europe compared to here (and pointed out in the article by the person from the School of Art) is that the young do not dress for the season - tee-shirts in snow, trainers in the rain, etc. People going out in winter in a shirt and no jacket is something I cannot imagine on the continent.
One other fashion related thing I have observed is the use of colour and fabrics. We seem to have black, navy blue as omnipresent, and so are less use to knowing how to wear colours. My intuition is that the young on the continent pay more attention to the opinion of advice from the older family members and here I would think nit comes mainly from the TV and magazines but the ideas probably comoing from the younger part of the population.
It is interesting that when someone makes an informed contribution to the state of our national society, and as he is SNP I imagine he wants to help this society to improve, that as usual our response is to 'shoot the messenger' ,and stick our head in the sand, instead of taking stock of the where we are now. Everyone rushes out to defend to supposed slur on us, but maybe we should see ourselves as others see us instead of rubishing criticisms which are intended to help us!
One thing I have noticed all over Europe compared to here (and pointed out in the article by the person from the School of Art) is that the young do not dress for the season - tee-shirts in snow, trainers in the rain, etc. People going out in winter in a shirt and no jacket is something I cannot imagine on the continent.
One other fashion related thing I have observed is the use of colour and fabrics. We seem to have black, navy blue as omnipresent, and so are less use to knowing how to wear colours. My intuition is that the young on the continent pay more attention to the opinion of advice from the older family members and here I would think nit comes mainly from the TV and magazines but the ideas probably comoing from the younger part of the population.
Posted by: porker, stirling on 8:15am Wed 27 Feb 08
This sad man clearly has a lot of time on his hands.
This sad man clearly has a lot of time on his hands.
Posted by: Rab The Man, Was My Uncle on 8:26am Wed 27 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Archie[/bold] wrote:
How about jodhpurs and winkle pickers?[/quote] ARCHIE
Izzat you lookin' thro' ma keyhole at me???
( I like to finish off the look with a double-breasted bowler hat !!)
Archie wrote:
How about jodhpurs and winkle pickers?
ARCHIE
Izzat you lookin' thro' ma keyhole at me???
( I like to finish off the look with a double-breasted bowler hat !!)
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 8:44am Wed 27 Feb 08
Trackies are pure gallus man!
Eff-off ye effin effer wit the eff de ye ken abit sartorial elegance!
Trackies are pure gallus man!
Eff-off ye effin effer wit the eff de ye ken abit sartorial elegance!
Posted by: dave69king, glasgow on 8:49am Wed 27 Feb 08
"fashion experts" may have their opinion and jobs to look out for , but I side with the Prof.- It's the great unwashed that people see on our streets and I think in his old fashioned way he's trying to show that this is what tourists will see- Ms Barr and your other experts are as removed from reality as the next overpaid underneeded marketing person.
"fashion experts" may have their opinion and jobs to look out for , but I side with the Prof.- It's the great unwashed that people see on our streets and I think in his old fashioned way he's trying to show that this is what tourists will see- Ms Barr and your other experts are as removed from reality as the next overpaid underneeded marketing person.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 9:07am Wed 27 Feb 08
I think he has a point, i try to discourage my kids from wearing trackies and i only allow my daughter to wear them for sport. I don't think there is anything worse than a young girl wearing trackies, loads of jewellery and thier feegie face lift pony tail. My biggest irritant is girls that have their ears pierced all the way up their ears and wearing earrings in decending size with their big nameplate chain (usually chantelle or some such name) and loads of rings. They look skanky, schemey and stupid. Don't even get me started on the parents that have an 8 month old child with pierced ears i think that should be illegal. ok rant over.
I think he has a point, i try to discourage my kids from wearing trackies and i only allow my daughter to wear them for sport. I don't think there is anything worse than a young girl wearing trackies, loads of jewellery and thier feegie face lift pony tail. My biggest irritant is girls that have their ears pierced all the way up their ears and wearing earrings in decending size with their big nameplate chain (usually chantelle or some such name) and loads of rings. They look skanky, schemey and stupid. Don't even get me started on the parents that have an 8 month old child with pierced ears i think that should be illegal. ok rant over.
Posted by: Peter Gunn, Glasgow on 9:57am Wed 27 Feb 08
The chap was absolutely correct, young (and older) peole in Scotland are the worst dressed in Western Europe.
They are the victimsm of the all conquering marketing machine, you could sell them anything, and they do. Cheap, so called sports clothes that look hideous if not on an athlete mark them out as these victims ! Sorry to say that it is often the poorest educated
who eat junk food and wear these awful clothes.
We have no sense of ourselves, controlled by the huge Americanised marketing machine.
Why does someone wear a jacket made for Everest on Argyle St. and then finish if off with the hideous 'trainers' that are not for Ben Nevis never mind Everest?
Trainers are the best example of all, why do people buy them at all?
Yes, the marketing machine, which ypung people are never taught about!
It is a rare sight to see creatively dressed young peole, nothing to do with ties or suits, I am talking about expression, self expression and the knowledge that demonstartes an awareness of advertising and how it works so effectively.
They are al in uniform, you really can sell them anything, young and old
The chap was absolutely correct, young (and older) peole in Scotland are the worst dressed in Western Europe.
They are the victimsm of the all conquering marketing machine, you could sell them anything, and they do. Cheap, so called sports clothes that look hideous if not on an athlete mark them out as these victims ! Sorry to say that it is often the poorest educated
who eat junk food and wear these awful clothes.
We have no sense of ourselves, controlled by the huge Americanised marketing machine.
Why does someone wear a jacket made for Everest on Argyle St. and then finish if off with the hideous 'trainers' that are not for Ben Nevis never mind Everest?
Trainers are the best example of all, why do people buy them at all?
Yes, the marketing machine, which ypung people are never taught about!
It is a rare sight to see creatively dressed young peole, nothing to do with ties or suits, I am talking about expression, self expression and the knowledge that demonstartes an awareness of advertising and how it works so effectively.
They are al in uniform, you really can sell them anything, young and old
Posted by: Bruce, Ayrshire on 10:00am Wed 27 Feb 08
The prof is correct. The reason kids buy ugly clothes is because they feel they have to to be 'in'. Those ugly clothes get truly ghastly within a couple of months so guess what? Yep, clothing retailer rubs slimy paws as more ugly clothes get bought to replace them. As to the tosh spoken by the fashion experts - get a life, you are only kidding our kids...
The prof is correct. The reason kids buy ugly clothes is because they feel they have to to be 'in'. Those ugly clothes get truly ghastly within a couple of months so guess what? Yep, clothing retailer rubs slimy paws as more ugly clothes get bought to replace them. As to the tosh spoken by the fashion experts - get a life, you are only kidding our kids...
Posted by: actvj, glasgow on 10:24am Wed 27 Feb 08
Yep there's a ballance to be struck even in fashion. My kid who is an active footballer loves his tracksuit trousers but wouldn't be seen dead wearing a full tracksuit. He finds trainers more comfortable but will wear formal/informal shoes when he thinks they are required. The tragedy is that if he is spotted wearing tracksuit trousers and trainers he is automatically pegged as a Ned. The number of times he has been stopped by the police and questioned even when he is carrying his football to and from the ash pitch that he plays on with his mates. I think the prof has point. Kids, particularly the less well off kids are targetted by the cheap sports chain shops. These shops play on the kids insecurities in order to make a sale. That I think is more shamefull than the kids actually wearing the stuff. It's the kid in the clothes we should be paying attention to not the label on the trackie.
PS. When Paul McCartney wore trainers with a suit at a fashion event it was hailed as 'style'. I just thought he looked like an old bloke who didn't care what he was wearing as long his feet were comfy.
Yep there's a ballance to be struck even in fashion. My kid who is an active footballer loves his tracksuit trousers but wouldn't be seen dead wearing a full tracksuit. He finds trainers more comfortable but will wear formal/informal shoes when he thinks they are required. The tragedy is that if he is spotted wearing tracksuit trousers and trainers he is automatically pegged as a Ned. The number of times he has been stopped by the police and questioned even when he is carrying his football to and from the ash pitch that he plays on with his mates. I think the prof has point. Kids, particularly the less well off kids are targetted by the cheap sports chain shops. These shops play on the kids insecurities in order to make a sale. That I think is more shamefull than the kids actually wearing the stuff. It's the kid in the clothes we should be paying attention to not the label on the trackie.
PS. When Paul McCartney wore trainers with a suit at a fashion event it was hailed as 'style'. I just thought he looked like an old bloke who didn't care what he was wearing as long his feet were comfy.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 11:34am Wed 27 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Donald Anderson[/bold] wrote:
Wullie. Q. Whit dae ye call a wumman frae Glesca that wears a white shell suit? A. The bride.[/quote] Wullie,
Q. Whit dae ye call a bride frae Eberdeen
A. A sheep
Donald Anderson wrote:
Wullie. Q. Whit dae ye call a wumman frae Glesca that wears a white shell suit? A. The bride.
Wullie,
Q. Whit dae ye call a bride frae Eberdeen
A. A sheep
Posted by: Blue Shield on 12:51pm Wed 27 Feb 08
His comments are absolutely the case. Shell Suits! I ask you! You have to be havin' a laugh.
His comments are absolutely the case. Shell Suits! I ask you! You have to be havin' a laugh.
Posted by: David W, Glasgow on 1:31pm Wed 27 Feb 08
"Scots youths ‘have worst dress sense in Europe’" - so?
I personally congratulate them for shunning the lure of the fashionistas. I wear what [bold]I[/bold] like, dress to please myself and to suit the conditions, and don't give a stuff what anyone else thinks. More people should do the same.
"Scots youths ‘have worst dress sense in Europe’" - so?
I personally congratulate them for shunning the lure of the fashionistas. I wear what
I like, dress to please myself and to suit the conditions, and don't give a stuff what anyone else thinks. More people should do the same.
Posted by: Ian on 1:40pm Wed 27 Feb 08
He may be right if he wanders around the likes of Easterhouse or Possilpark in Glasgow. Torry, Cove, Kincorth or Tillydrone in Aberdeen. Niddrie, Wester Hailes, Craigmillar or Sighthill in Edinburgh. However, in the most part I think we all look pretty good!
He may be right if he wanders around the likes of Easterhouse or Possilpark in Glasgow. Torry, Cove, Kincorth or Tillydrone in Aberdeen. Niddrie, Wester Hailes, Craigmillar or Sighthill in Edinburgh. However, in the most part I think we all look pretty good!
Posted by: OHO, Glasgow on 1:56pm Wed 27 Feb 08
Actually, I think that this is something that does need to be said. It is an absolute fact that in some communities, spring is signalled by the move from dark shell suit to white shell suit. I have conducted interviews where applicants turn up in shell suit and trainers - and for the price of what they are wearing, they could have a suit instead. Clearly it depends on the nature of the work - but appearances do count and turning up in a shell suit (even a sparkling white one) signifies a lack of respect.
Actually, I think that this is something that does need to be said. It is an absolute fact that in some communities, spring is signalled by the move from dark shell suit to white shell suit. I have conducted interviews where applicants turn up in shell suit and trainers - and for the price of what they are wearing, they could have a suit instead. Clearly it depends on the nature of the work - but appearances do count and turning up in a shell suit (even a sparkling white one) signifies a lack of respect.
Posted by: Corrupt EU, Fife on 2:40pm Wed 27 Feb 08
We shouldn't be comparing ourselves with Europe. We're not that shallow, and besides, Britain is unique.
We shouldn't be comparing ourselves with Europe. We're not that shallow, and besides, Britain is unique.
Posted by: Samuel, Dumfries on 5:29pm Wed 27 Feb 08
Some of the young people in Glasgow have a real sense of style and are very creative with their look. This is particularly true in areas where there are large student populations, like the West End.
The majority of those wearing tracksuits etc are from more deprived parts of the city and country. We shouldn't be mocking them, we should be educating them better. This is very difficult as it is a style embeded within their culture. They feel a certain amount of pressure from their peers to dress a certain way in order to fit in with their communities.
Some of the young people in Glasgow have a real sense of style and are very creative with their look. This is particularly true in areas where there are large student populations, like the West End.
The majority of those wearing tracksuits etc are from more deprived parts of the city and country. We shouldn't be mocking them, we should be educating them better. This is very difficult as it is a style embeded within their culture. They feel a certain amount of pressure from their peers to dress a certain way in order to fit in with their communities.
Posted by: lang sandy, weel up the howe on 8:24pm Wed 27 Feb 08
billy connolys story about the guy in glasgow wearing platform shoes and a kilt.Or the guy wearin a pale blue crimpolene safari suit. Seems oor dress sense has bin pish for years
billy connolys story about the guy in glasgow wearing platform shoes and a kilt.Or the guy wearin a pale blue crimpolene safari suit. Seems oor dress sense has bin pish for years
Posted by: K Hufir, Stirling on 10:39am Thu 28 Feb 08
The most toxic members of the animal kingdom sport bold warning stripes and primary colours. A case of man imitating nature?
The most toxic members of the animal kingdom sport bold warning stripes and primary colours. A case of man imitating nature?
Posted by: delboy, glasgow on 3:32pm Thu 28 Feb 08
This MSP was on the 530 show STV last night and is barking mad do the medics know he is wandering the streets or is he Wullie from Aberdeen
This MSP was on the 530 show STV last night and is barking mad do the medics know he is wandering the streets or is he Wullie from Aberdeen
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